2011-08-22

Extremely Important Thoughts on George R. R. Martin and J. K. Rowling

I enjoyed HBO's "Game of Thrones" quite a lot, which naturally got me interested in the books by George R. R. Martin. One does not need to spend much time reading the writing about the writing -- the information on wikipedia, various critical pullquotes, etc. -- before running headlong into the Thrones-versus-Potter drama.

Given the publishing timelines of the books, and the overwhelming popularity and general cultural sensation of Harry Potter and the Miserable Adolescence, it is perhaps inevitable that comparisons come up. And of course, J.K. Rowling won the coveted Big Dork scifi book prize over Martin, which only serves to increase the likelihood that readers and pundits draw comparisons between the two series.

And given that near inevitability, it is all the more nearly inevitable that I will weigh in with great wisdom and insight.

First, let's start with the 2001 Hugo award. "Eat your heart out, Rowling. Maybe you have billions of dollars and my Hugo, but you don't have readers like these." Readers like what, sir? Twelve year olds? I'm pretty sure Rowling's got twelve year olds. Older? Younger? She's got 'em. Pathologically concerned with the outcome of the series? Got 'em. So readers like what, exactly?

At least one of the Martin books has a pull-quote in the leading fluff pages of critical babbling that explicitly says the series is "better than Harry Potter." This is obviously a stupid thing to say without defining the terms: better at what?

Both are multi-generational sweeping epics. Martin's is considerably vaster in scope and considerably more complex in terms of parallel narratives, questions of morality, etc. Rowling's is more complex on an emotional level as it focuses so consistently and deeply on the trials, suffering, and development of one primary character.

Is Martin's writing "better"? It's more elevated in tone and more structurally sophisticated than that of Rowling, to be sure. There are moments of laugh-out-loud humor, of poignant loss. There are moments of sheer tedium, when we're told of the outfits the character deemed appropriate for wearing to court, or the history of some local non-existent figure of legend, or the lyrics to some moronic song that a traveling bard offers up.

(In that sense, George R. R. truly is the "American Tolkein"; he may not describe the generations of Proudfeet, nor every succulent detail of Bilbo's parting breakfast smorgasbord, but he doesn't hold back with the utterly irrelevant, pardon-me-while-I-skim-this-horsecrap detail. I don't hold it against him; some of Bach's de capo arias have this quality as well, but Bach's accomplishments remain nevertheless staggering.)

Martin presents a world perhaps more like the one humans actually inhabit, apart from the dragons and the like. People act out of self-interest, nobility is a crutch, and the only honest, loyal people are the broken ones. The world is gritty and unforgiving and, above all, perilous. There's something beautiful and dazzling about the interweaving narrative threads, about the sheer scope of it all. Characters like Tyrion, Jaime, and Arya are quite a lot of fun, as well. And anybody can be taken from you, at any time. It's stark. Refreshingly so.

Yet, Rowling's world, while simpler and more fanciful, is not without grit. Rowling waits a long while before she takes somebody from us that we really care about, so when it happens, it hurts all the more. Martin focuses on the bleakness, the fickleness of fate. Rowling focuses on the loss and its consequences. Which is more interesting?

So, to return to the original question ("better at what?"): Martin excels at scope, grandeur, concurrency, weaving, twisting, turning. Yet his characters all feel a little too simple, too straightforward. Rowling, on the other other, develops a few characters with great care and great patience, and the development of tween years through adolescence feels, to me, familiar and fundamentally true. As much as I enjoy Martin's work (thus far), I find it impossible to care about any of the characters to the extent that I cared about Harry and co.

Which is your preference? Both will suck you in. They're both quite good and quite enjoyable, and both have plenty of flaws. So what do you want from a book series? They are both good enough at what they do that one can almost forget that they're fantasies. The fanciful aspects are just facts of the world the characters inhabit, but the choices and development of the characters are what matter.

For my money, I'll take Rowling. I am a human, and Rowling writes about humans and their pains. But it's understandable that one could conclude differently.

Now, all that said, let's consider one fatal flaw in Martin's writing: the sex.

The sex scenes peppering Martin's books are unfortunate. Truly unfortunate. They read like Penthouse Forum letters. They read like what a hormone-addled, pimply, thirteen year-old boy would imagine sex to be. The epic nature of them, the female submission to the man's sheer man-ness, all of it: embarrassingly ridiculous. That they focus purely on the animal act, utterly devoid of love, could arguably be said to fit with the bleak nature of the series. Whatever the case, as flaws go, the sex flaw is tragic: Martin directs this vast array of characters and narratives with virtuosic ability, but repeatedly exposes the weakest elements of his writing in these superfluous scenes that could be better expressed through implication.

(Arguably one such scene is not superfluous: that of Khal Drogo and Dany in their yes/no dialog. Yet that scene is one of the most absurd and poorly conceived in the entire series. I can believe in his dragons, his wights, his Others, his Lord of Light. I cannot believe in his concept of sexual intercourse.)

It is possible that my reaction reflects some latent puritanical impulse of which I've been thus far unaware. It is possible that my own concept of these topics is shriveled and puny, that these sexual scenarios I find comical are to most people utterly pedestrian. It is possible that Martin is the greatest lover in the history of the universe. All these and more are possible, but the books would still be better without these scenes. These things are better left unsaid. To make them concrete is to make them ridiculous, disappointing, cheap, useless. Don't you know that, George?

Rowling had the good sense to avoid this topic. (Can you imagine the parental outcry if she hadn't? That would've been fun to see.) She touched on some adolescent physical stuff, but only just. She wisely focused on the more relevant aspect of romance (though Martin's sexcapades could hardly be described thus) through the obsessive lens of adolescence. Her characters desire each other with crippling hormonal longing, and it drives them crazy, but they long to be loved rather than to merely possess or grapple. This aspect of the great sex game is actually worth reading about, because it's actually, you know, interesting. It's the great mystery that occupies so much of our time (until suddenly it doesn't). It can't be solved with simple measures. The aspects with which Martin concerns himself can be solved with a good wank.

In conclusion: I admire Martin's accomplishment, and I admire Rowling's. Both are great fun, particularly if you approach them first and foremost as such; that way, you can be pleasantly surprised at the emotional depth as the series carry on. Yet Rowling's is the more meaningful achievement, in my view. Rowling wrote for twelve year-olds, but achieved something moving and significant. Martin strives for something significant, but unfortunately at times writes like a twelve year-old.
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17 comments:

  1. I'll read "A Song of Ice and Fire" in French and then let you know which series I prefer.

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  2. Harry Potter is the only main character of a major fantasy series with less personality than Frodo Baggins. The only times he shows any non-generic personality traits is when he acts like a petulant shit.

    The only character with any complexity is Snape, and that is a sham as his arc is telegraphed from early on. Compare Snape to Jaime (or to a lesser degree Tyrion). Jaime starts out as a despicable character, but you can grow to like him, and what's more, he's still something of a conflicted dickhead.

    The actual conflict in HP is set up in the simplest way possible. There is a good team and a bad team whose qualities are clearly delineated. There are characters who are slightly ambiguous, but it is pretty easy to deduce that Sirius Black and Snape are both good guys. The counterexamples involve lame reveals, eg. Quirrel and Peter Pettigrew. The clarity of the good vs. evil amplifies the emotion without improving the actual content of the plot, like effective music underlying a lame scene in a TV show or movie.

    I care more about the Song of Ice and Fire characters than the HP characters simply because there is real danger and stakes. You know that the three principles are going to make it through Harry Potter. Unless you really love Neville or the Weasley twins (and I am Fred and George's #1 fan), there is no real sense of risk. It was even predictable that Dumbledore would bite it because the entire series slowly strips down the protections between Harry and Voldemort. Although, in a lame bit of fan service Dumbledore helps Harry from beyond the grave.

    Rowling's most impressive accomplishment as a writer was to finish her series in the allotted seven books. Even so, she needed a good editor for the last 3, particularly the last one which spends half its length trying to bore the reader to tears.

    Martin has much less control over his narrative and can't seem to resist injecting new plots and characters where they are not needed. This, and the fact that his characters say the same things to themselves OVER and OVER again are his two biggest flaws as a writer. At least the latter is the sort of thing people actually do, although who the hell wants to read about it.

    I didn't really think too much about the sex scenes in SoIF. Given the amount of rape going on in the background, I'm just happy when the sex is consensual. In general, sex scenes in books and movies are pretty silly. The only books whose sex scenes I remember are Follet's Eye of the Needle, and Farmer's Image of the Beast. I read them sometime between 10 and 14, and while Eye of the Needle is a little graphic, Image of the Beast is like pornography written on acid. Great, now the woman with a snake in her vagina that has paralytic poison will surely haunt my dreams. In fact, if you've read this far in the comment, go out and read Image of the Beast. You will wonder how I read that at so early an age and came out as normal as I did.

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  3. [HP books]
    > particularly the last one which spends half its
    > length trying to bore the reader to tears.

    Understatement of the year. Thought they would never leave the woods and get on with the plot. I was wondering if she got paid by the word at that point, or was just typing to pass the time while she pondered the ending.

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    1. "...Thought they would never leave the woods and get on with the plot..."

      I'm sorry, but you can just shut your mouth. Just because you have the attention span of a moth and need to be given critical information every five seconds doesn't mean that everyone thinks that way. I feel like the small details really add a lot to the depth of the story, and to each character.

      And anyways, ASOIAF is a children's book, plain and simple. It's easy to read, easy to understand, and straight-forward. Martin is in no way at all a better writer than Rowling. It's just that his story resonated very strongly with his target audience, and that led to his series' astounding success.

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    2. Did you just say that asoiaf was a children's series? Do you know how stupid that is? ASOIF has people having their flesh burned off, rape, vanilla sex, justification of murderers, and the last harry potter book does suffer from length issues. That part of the 7th hp book does feel stretched out, but have you even read ASOIAF? Do you have the brains of a dog?

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    3. ASOIAF? A children's book?

      Ha!

      Ha!

      ...

      Ha!

      ...

      Ha!!!

      But really, in ASOIAF, there's nudity, rape, incest, beheadings, swearing of the f**k and c**t variety, a murder attempt on a child, and much, much, more.

      And that's just the first few chapters!

      It's obvious you're just a butthurt Harry Potter fan. I'm a Potterhead, too, but honestly, Harry Potter's a children's book, plain and simple, easy to read, and easy to understand.

      Again, I love Harry Potter, but the last book sucked. Why? Because it departed from the whodunnit-nature of the first few books. The first six books are, essentially, crime novels. J.K. Rowling reads crime novels. She knows how to write them (look at her other novels). J.K. Rowling doesn't read fantasy. She's made that painfully clear. The last book is what a Harry Potter book is stripped down to it's strictly fantasy elements.

      And the book suffered because of it. It's pretty clear. You don't have to blindly support something just because you love the author.

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  4. "...he doesn't hold back with the utterly irrelevant, pardon-me-while-I-skim-this-horsecrap detail..."

    I'm sorry, but you can just shut your mouth. Just because you have the attention span of a moth and need to be given critical information every five seconds doesn't mean that everyone thinks that way. I feel like the small details really add a lot to the depth of the story, and to each character.

    And anyways, Harry Potter is a children's book, plain and simple. It's easy to read, easy to understand, and straight-forward. Rowling is in no way at all a better writer than Martin. It's just that her story resonated very strongly with her target audience, and that led to her series' astounding success.

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  5. I agree with a lot of what you're saying! Although I don't think one is a better writer than the other. Rowling was still writing for a young audience whereas Martin is, I should think, writing for young adults and older. No ten-year-old would read GoT and not shudder a couple of times, if they even could keep up. Not even I, a 25-year old, can keep up with all the places and the people and their names and such all the time. But it's okay, cause it's still a good read.

    I love the Harry Potter-books more than most books I've read, but not because of the writing (which is good for an adventure genre but probably would get boring in a book about I dunno, a person in a normal school), but because of the world in itself, and ofcourse the characters, and all the complexities with the plot, and there are many. Much more "WTF WHAT WAS THAT OMG"-moments than in Martin's books, I should think.

    I enjoy the Song of Ice and Fire-books because of the tension. And some of the characters. But not much more. Sometimes I just skim through some pages. Because while I enjoy details, like the ones in Harry Potter - which are JUST enough and wonderful, in Martin's books there are a quite too many in my opinion. Not as many as with Tolkien though, which is good.

    Oh well. I still think Rowling succeeds, maybe because I grew up with Harry and just started reading (and watching) GoT this year. And also maybe cause Martin sounds like a disappointed toddler with his critique towards her.

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  6. I think George R R Martin absolutely overpowers Harry Potter, from the beginning Harry Potter is a classic good vs evil story. (Much like lord of the rings but lotr is epic)

    People tend to complain about a few things in song of ice and fire series and I admit there are some flaws, it certainly isn't perfect, but Harry Potter isn't even comparable to Martin's writing.

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  7. Harry Potter is a universally appealing work. There is certainly plenty to like about it. However, putting it even in the same solar system of writing quality as Martin's ASOIAF is laughable. ASOIAF has better:

    - Dynamic character development
    - Cohesive plot
    - Carefully constructed secondary world with CONSISTENT rules
    - Use of literary devices such as metaphor, symbolism, juxtaposition, etc. that adds extra layers of meaning beyond surface value to the text

    It's fine if you think Harry Potter's better literature. Just be aware that no one who is familiar with literature (i.e. doesn't just read the three most popular books of the year that are displayed at the supermarket) is going to agree with you. Don't get me wrong; tastes differ, and you may enjoy Harry Potter more, which is perfectly fine. The content in ASOIAF and HP differ greatly and one may not be your cup of tea.

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    1. I think it boils down to opinion. In terms of writing both authors are great, there is no need to respect one author to lift another author up. may I also remind you that JKR is the author that has been consisted in term of critical acclaim. also you are forgetting that harry potter is basically a metaphor of the real earth history from nazism to civil right. it has all the literature devices like metaphor, symbolism for example dementors which is a methphor for tormented and symbolism like king cross and Dumbledore being a christ like figure. Rowling also writes longer and complex characters than martin because she spends her time making them three dimensional before she kills them off. unlike martin who introduces a character and have him to a dramatic thing and then kill the character off immediately. juxtaposition also dwells in the rowing's writing especially when you contrast and compare the character of voldermort and dumblerdore. So both authors are great. the hugo could have gone to either of them.

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  8. Completely irrelevant. I personally feel that Martin is heads over Rowling. Do not mistake me for the world of Harry Potter is very dear to me. But then just head over to fanfiction.net and you will see what Harry Potter could have been..... That no one can say about SoIF since everything it could have been gets added inside by Martin :P Yes Rowling had great imagination and grit to finish Harry Potter but her writing neither astounds me nor the book fills me with a sense of accomplishment of reading it (particularly talking about the last)

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    1. The writing of Rowlings new book the cuckoos calling has manage to get a lot more critical praise than any of martin latest books and the writing style in that book is very similar to the harry potter books.
      I think it is based on preference but to say by fact martin is a superior writer is ridiculous because martin books would have not been all that popular if not for the tv series. Rowling did not need the potter films to be reconsidered as a great author. Also the last GOT books that Martin has written has gotten mixed to negative reviews.

      Rowling and Martin are in the same boat.

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    2. I am against giving the "X is better than Y because X is more popular" argument any credit because, as we've all seen in the past, the popularity vote does not mean something is necessarily good quality. Otherwise, if we use that argument credibly, then we also have to give Twilight credit as good literature (shudders) because it was very popular at the time.

      I personally generally prefer Martin's books, including the non-ASOIAF books because I like morally ambiguous characters and settings better than morality tales. That doesn't mean I don't appreciate the world Rowling has created, it just means that I prefer Martin's better.

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  9. Insinuating grrm might be in some way fallible is like kicking a hornet nest... a hornet nest of retards.

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  10. Call this a selfish case of self promotion but I really want you to read:
    http://anythingeteverything.blogspot.in/2015/06/george-r-r-martin-vs-j-k-rowling-jos.html

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  11. JK Rowling i am huge fan of yours. You are really nice lady and for me successful celebrity .

    ReplyDelete

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